Comments on: The Line Between Science Fiction and Fantasy http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/ Life from a science fiction point of view... Sun, 20 Jul 2008 14:57:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: rosieadmin http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-229 rosieadmin Fri, 11 Aug 2006 11:21:12 +0000 http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-229 God the poor little muppets, whatever shall they do... pigeon holed into a sci-fi or fantasy ghetto, never allowed to leave because of peer pressure... (maybe I should stop with the sarcasm now since I actually have to live with Jose) God the poor little muppets, whatever shall they do… pigeon holed into a sci-fi or fantasy ghetto, never allowed to leave because of peer pressure… (maybe I should stop with the sarcasm now since I actually have to live with Jose)

]]> By: Jose http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-226 Jose Fri, 11 Aug 2006 09:01:08 +0000 http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-226 Ack, did I just make a "think of the children" argument? I must be getting soft in my old age. Ack, did I just make a “think of the children” argument? I must be getting soft in my old age.

]]> By: A.R.Yngve http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-223 A.R.Yngve Fri, 11 Aug 2006 07:11:21 +0000 http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-223 For the sake of the children -- WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?? -- the thin red line should be maintained. For the sake of the children — WON’T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?? — the thin red line should be maintained.

]]> By: Nick Mamatas http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-217 Nick Mamatas Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:04:00 +0000 http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-217 You lost me at the please won't somebody think of the children bit. You lost me at the please won’t somebody think of the children bit.

]]> By: Fantasy vs. science fiction at Deanna Hoak http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-216 Fantasy vs. science fiction at Deanna Hoak Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:58:54 +0000 http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-216 [...] Meme Therapy has posted answers to another question they asked me and some other folks, which was whether it was worth maintaining the “thin red line” between fantasy and science fiction. [...] […] Meme Therapy has posted answers to another question they asked me and some other folks, which was whether it was worth maintaining the “thin red line” between fantasy and science fiction. […]

]]> By: rosie http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-211 rosie Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:44:22 +0000 http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-211 Yeah one of my big bug bears with fantasy is that basically every book has the same bloody setting. Enough with the elves, magicians and cod celtic mythology! (the real stuff\'s much more interesting) Start mining some new seams of myth which doesn\'t involve fey folk in shining white and bloody nature worship. eh hem... anyway...what I was going to say is that while science fiction authors pride themselves on coming up with new worlds, races, settings and species fantasy novelists seem content to re-hash the same old dull stereotypes. And quite frankly it\'s boring. There are some exceptions, I thought China Mievilles scar had an inventive setting and species (mosquito people yeuch!)but on the whole I think that fantasy is still stuck in a rut. To respond to AR Yngve - true, what I like is when nanotech gets used as the explanation for what look suspiciously like psi powers... definite cheating. Yeah one of my big bug bears with fantasy is that basically every book has the same bloody setting. Enough with the elves, magicians and cod celtic mythology! (the real stuff\’s much more interesting) Start mining some new seams of myth which doesn\’t involve fey folk in shining white and bloody nature worship.

eh hem… anyway…what I was going to say is that while science fiction authors pride themselves on coming up with new worlds, races, settings and species fantasy novelists seem content to re-hash the same old dull stereotypes. And quite frankly it\’s boring. There are some exceptions, I thought China Mievilles scar had an inventive setting and species (mosquito people yeuch!)but on the whole I think that fantasy is still stuck in a rut.

To respond to AR Yngve - true, what I like is when nanotech gets used as the explanation for what look suspiciously like psi powers… definite cheating.

]]> By: Charlie http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-210 Charlie Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:34:15 +0000 http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-210 I don't really read enough fantasy to comment in a particularly informed manner (not that I'll let that stop me ;), but it's always seemed to me that one of the most significant differences between the two is that SF has never been through a Tolkein moment - No disrespect intended, but Tolkein had much the same effect on the genre as a mass extinction does on biodiversity. Thankfully literary genres recover from this sort of thing faster than biospheres, and I reckon that the fantsy ecosystem is beggining to repopulate itself. As for the thin red line, well, I think you could probably make a good case that that only came into existence after it became compulsory for fantasy to include bloody squeakies and wizards... I don’t really read enough fantasy to comment in a particularly informed manner (not that I’ll let that stop me ;), but it’s always seemed to me that one of the most significant differences between the two is that SF has never been through a Tolkein moment - No disrespect intended, but Tolkein had much the same effect on the genre as a mass extinction does on biodiversity. Thankfully literary genres recover from this sort of thing faster than biospheres, and I reckon that the fantsy ecosystem is beggining to repopulate itself. As for the thin red line, well, I think you could probably make a good case that that only came into existence after it became compulsory for fantasy to include bloody squeakies and wizards…

]]> By: A.R.Yngve http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-209 A.R.Yngve Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:29:44 +0000 http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-209 It is true that SF "cheats" with the explanations. Before "nanotech" was the handwavium of choice, "psi powers" were frequently used without any sort of rationalization. But... the principle stands. Fantasy does not NEED to explain. SF, in essence, has to. But SF, unlike fantasy, is pervaded by a tension between the Explained and the Unexplainable. It is true that SF “cheats” with the explanations. Before “nanotech” was the handwavium of choice, “psi powers” were frequently used without any sort of rationalization.

But… the principle stands. Fantasy does not NEED to explain. SF, in essence, has to. But SF, unlike fantasy, is pervaded by a tension between the Explained and the Unexplainable.

]]> By: Jose http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-207 Jose Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:24:50 +0000 http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-207 Rosie says <blockquotecite = "However there’s one other distinction which is that fantasy authors almost always cheat while science fiction authors hardly ever do."> I think there's a grain of truth in this but you're seriously stretching here. I'm not well read in fantasy but the last few fantasy books I read (admittedly by David Gemmell who was probably better than par for the course) compared very favourably with the last two dozen or so Science Fiction novels I read when it came to resolutions through authorial fiat. Authorial fiat is the real culprit you're referring to and it can strike at any time irrespective of genre. There's plenty of Science Fiction out there where the words quantum or nano are virtualy synomonous with magic.</blockquotecite> Rosie says

I think there’s a grain of truth in this but you’re seriously stretching here. I’m not well read in fantasy but the last few fantasy books I read (admittedly by David Gemmell who was probably better than par for the course) compared very favourably with the last two dozen or so Science Fiction novels I read when it came to resolutions through authorial fiat.

Authorial fiat is the real culprit you’re referring to and it can strike at any time irrespective of genre. There’s plenty of Science Fiction out there where the words quantum or nano are virtualy synomonous with magic. ]]> By: Rosie http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-206 Rosie Thu, 10 Aug 2006 20:13:43 +0000 http://memetherapy.net/10/the-line-between-science-fiction-and-fantasy/#comment-206 I'm with Susan on this one, science fiction deals with the "possible" while fantasy deals wiuth the "impossible". However there's one other distinction which is that fantasy authors almost always cheat while science fiction authors hardly ever do. What do I mean by cheat? I mean the introduction of a previously unmentioned power / device / macguffin / God / Demon / faery in order to get the character out of or into a sticky situation with no explanation. It seems somehow acceptable (to certain fantasy authors anyway)to have some weak and snivelling character who, upon finding themself surrounded by a dozen hungry orcs, suddenly whips out the previously unmentioned magical ring of Orthinue or whatever, summons a few Gods, defeats said Orcs and then toddles off with absolutely no explanation of where how or why they are in possession of the fantasy equivalent of a WMD. Science fiction writers on the other hand tend to go to extraordinary lengths to explain any such devices and where they came from because otherwise, well they're just writing a fanstasy novel ain't they? I’m with Susan on this one, science fiction deals with the “possible” while fantasy deals wiuth the “impossible”. However there’s one other distinction which is that fantasy authors almost always cheat while science fiction authors hardly ever do.

What do I mean by cheat? I mean the introduction of a previously unmentioned power / device / macguffin / God / Demon / faery in order to get the character out of or into a sticky situation with no explanation.

It seems somehow acceptable (to certain fantasy authors anyway)to have some weak and snivelling character who, upon finding themself surrounded by a dozen hungry orcs, suddenly whips out the previously unmentioned magical ring of Orthinue or whatever, summons a few Gods, defeats said Orcs and then toddles off with absolutely no explanation of where how or why they are in possession of the fantasy equivalent of a WMD.

Science fiction writers on the other hand tend to go to extraordinary lengths to explain any such devices and where they came from because otherwise, well they’re just writing a fanstasy novel ain’t they?

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